One of the first things that I look at when I read a blog is “About.” So I suppose I should share some stuff about me. I love blogging. It brings structure, albeit artificial, to all the random thoughts I have 24/7. (Yes, my brain is still sprinting as I’m drifting off to sleep.) I like to think.
Let’s see…I believe we are our words, so we should try to always tell the truth and to keep our word. I’ve worked as a community college instructor, writer and a social worker.
I originally started this blog as a way to record all the encounters I had with relgious folks in my community. I am trying to raise my kids to be agnostic, free-thinking, compassionate and peace-loving.
I don’t always stay on topic. Sometimes, I stray to other things that interest me: politics, parenting, medicine, health, relationship issues….ummm….it appears the list is long. But I hope to engage readers and to meet other people who are interested in thinking through topics. I welcome feedback from everyone.
Other interests include: working out, tennis, reading, chess!, indie films, people-watching, creative writing, eating and skiing. I love kids, mine and others.
Now (please!) tell me something about you:
Hi,
I’m taking the liberty of including your blog in my database of links on Secular Earth that I am compiling as a resource for secular parenting.
http://www.secularearth.com
The secular parenting section is under the Apostate Alley tab on the main page title bar. I hope you get a lot or new readers.
Rich
Sure. Thanks, Richard.
You have a cool website–and a great blog, too.
Raising kids without religion. What a refreshing thought and a pleasant surprise to come across your blog! All of the apparent benefits of religion can be obtained through other means. Eliminating religion from children’s lives would help to greatly reduce religion-related child abuse (see my blog on my website for hundreds of news articles on that subject). Here in Canada, the province of Quebec has instituted what I think is a great educational program on religion and ethics, though it has plenty of criticism from parents who want their parental rights to trump their children’s rights to religious freedom and an open future. Religious freedom, by the way, includes both freedom OF religion as well as freedom FROM religion. Children in Quebec are now being taught what is essentially a comparative religion course, learning about religious traditions around the world as well as ethical principles. When children are exposed to a wide range of religious beliefs and are taught to apply critical thinking skills to those beliefs, they are less likely to become victims of dogmatic religious indoctrination and the intolerance and bigotry that goes along with it. The sooner children learn that there is no absolute truth as revealed by religion, the less of their precious life they will waste on pie-in-the-sky delusions. There are no second chances, so we had all better make the best of it, appreciate every breath we take, protect the environment for ourselves and the generations that follow, and don’t rely on sky gods or any other kind of god to rescue us from ourselves.
Great comment, thank you. I especially like this point you made: “Religious freedom, by the way, includes both freedom OF religion as well as freedom FROM religion. ” I don’t think we get that here! I’m all for a comparative religion course and would love to see that in our schools.
Hello Perry and dam,
Back in January of this year when I started floating my idea of launching an initiative to end hereditary religion many of my atheist friends told me I was nuts. Well maybe they were right, but being stubborn I went ahead with my plan anyway. The facebook site now has around 330 members from all over the globe. I personally recruited many of members based on their writings I found, their interactions with other facebook people, where they lived and their godless stance as revealed in their profile information.
Parts of the world are far ahead of the USA on the secular highway, so I think people who live in secular democracies can be valuable allies. My idea was to link all the best thinkers and the most avid activists together and see what happens. facebook is a social activists dream application. We have people from all persuasions: satinists, atheists, pastafarians, gay straight and in between –you name it. My only criteria is can you write well, are you against hereditary religion and can we motivate you to action.
A really great sign is that dozens of high school and college kids are coming to the group. They are smart, articulate and best of all they have the energy that only young people possess.
Early in the program I recognized that I really did not know enough about parent’s attitudes towards indoctrinating their children. My suspicion was that no one really paused and seriously considered whether there could possibly be any downside to consigning very young children to such a program. I could not locate any research on the subject so I thought, what they hell why not just go and ask some parents. I came across an Amazon.com feature for connecting their customers in discussion groups and discovered there was one for parents. Perfect. Here is the question I posed:
Why do parents believe they have the right to force religion on their children?
Since March we have attracted 300 people and they have written 2200 posts. I carefully catalog the points parents raise and then research responses. I have around 50 point/counterpoint items in my database. I cannot say I have knockdown arguments for each point, but as time goes on I gain more insight and my rebuttals are getting stronger. Plus, there is more social research coming on line now that the taboo against critiquing religion has been eased by the New Atheists. And people like dam are a great resource also. (Check out the Atheist Bloggers social networking web site.)
It can get contentious on the Amazone.com forum, but I work hard at calming emotions of the forum members. I have only asked Amazon to remove two members so far.
The thing that really serves to quiet the list is when I play back some actual personal narratives from apostates who describe the pain and heartbreak their brush with religion caused them. True stories, ripped from the pages of exchristian.net and your blog Perry. We must do all we can to destroy the myth that religion is benign. It can cause great stress in families and even break them apart. For some apostates, breaking the truth to mom and dad is exactly like admitting they are gay would be.
Every major faith category has a support group on the web. If that does not say something about how damaging religion can be I don’t know what would.
At the same time I have put a lot of effort into trying to understand the laws around parent’s rights. In this respect, the work of family law professor James G. Dwyer at William and Mary has been an inspiration.
As we go forward into 2009 I am hopeful we can mount an international day of protest to draw attention to the cause and get the media to pay attention. My sense is that secular people around the world are becoming more vocal and more willing to become activists in the initiative.
Good luck to you both in the coming year. Let’s stay in touch.
Regards,
Rich Collins
So happy to have found your site. Love the title!!! Both my husband and I were raised Catholic, but have chosen not to practice in adulthood nor are we raising our only son with a religion. He wasn’t even baptized. GASP!
I loved what Perry Bulwer said above;
“The sooner children learn that there is no absolute truth as revealed by religion, the less of their precious life they will waste on pie-in-the-sky delusions. There are no second chances, so we had all better make the best of it, appreciate every breath we take, protect the environment for ourselves and the generations that follow, and don’t rely on sky gods or any other kind of god to rescue us from ourselves.”
I couldn’t agree more.
I am looking forward to going down the rabbit hole that this site is going to take me.
Thanks and PEACE.
-Lori
I’m not sure I understand your position…in one statement, you say there is no god, and thus no absolute truth, but in another statement, you say that we should live “ethical” lives. So, who defines what is ethical and what is not?…please don’t reply with “well, we all agree murder is wrong”, because in many times throughout history (especially in evolutionary development), killing was the way to determine which species was more developed than others. So, who determines this?…I mean, if there is no god, and no ethical standard that I would need to live by, then what keeps me from living the way I want, and killing anyone/everyone I don’t like…if you say this is wrong, then wouldn’t you be the “intolerant” person you keep saying that religious people are like?…
And, please post my comment and don’t be some “bigot” and “intolerant” person that you claim others are and you aren’t…
HMMMMMM……interesting posts. I would also like to see the interesting reply to Clifton. Kinda odd that his post has been there since January with no reply.
Ok, well about me. I am a CHRISTIAN! Whew, glad that I got that out of the way. I just happen to come across this blog today due to Cafferty’s article on kids at http://www.cnn.com. I find it interesting to see what reasons that people come up with for not believing in God.
I am not hear to condemn anyone for their beliefs, so I hope no one is getting huffy puffy. I was raised Penecostal but am now a Non-denominational Christian. Whats the difference? We all believe in Christ, but Non-denominational does not adhere to the rules of a particular deomination. Basically, eliminating the “religion” to focus in on studying the word of God with.
Thru my life experiences I have been able to see God move and work in my family, so I can’t grasps how some seem to believe that there is no God and thus putting ourselves on the pedestal. I am not here to judge, because that is God’s job. Unfortunately, I think that many before me have left a bad taste in the mouths of many by trying to FORCE religion on others, even though the Bibles says that to receive it you have to be willing to accept it. So if is you choice to follow or not.
I will try and check in from time to time as long as people try to remember that we are all entitled to our choices in life and are free to do as we please.
To answers a question in a previous post. Christian parents should not “FORCE” religion on their children. However as Christians we are directed to raise our children in the church so that we they are older than they can decide for themselves, much as the author hear has done.
Well, Clifton never came back. But there were quite a few comments after I posted his response here: http://kidswithoutreligion.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/cliftonheres-your-comment/.
I really appreciate your open-mindedness and gentle way of expressing your opinions. It’s interesting that you were raised Penecostal, but have moved from that extreme point. I don’t believe (or, perhaps I should speak only for myself) that I am “getting huffy puffy” about you or anyone expressing their opinion respectfully.
I’d would like to address a misconception: “….so I can’t grasps how some seem to believe that there is no God and thus putting ourselves on the pedestal.” Because of how you think about religion, you may not be able to understand that I do not put myself or man in general on a pedestal. I actually am humbled by the world and my tiny, tiny place in it. I value all life-animals, too.
Not believing in god doesn’t mean that a person is not as moral or not as appreciative of the life she’s been given.
Please check back any time! Peace.
Hello from a Catholic. If you want to be really fair, you should have your kids do a comparative study of religions by having prominent citizens (who belong and can speak for that religion) give a presentation. For a Catholic, a pastor or Bishop or Master Catechist might do, but if you were to do this, you should not rely on secular sources (this would be true of any Protestant denomination as well). At the very least, your children should read the Bible to find out what Christianity actually is. A history course teaching the facts without bias (or all both biases) would be a plus.
You do a disservice to true people of faith by sweeping them all under the rugs. Yes, we are all human, which means that we are all bound to fail. But I’ve learned to put my faith in God, not man, to help get me through. Yes there are those in the hierarchy (this is true of government and religion) who are corrupt and doing immoral things to innocent people. But the Catholic Church is led by God in the three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I hope you will eventually come to see the truth in this. You’re right that belief in God does not mean that a person is moral, for the Devil believes in God. But belief in God and practicing his teaching leads to people closer to perfect than not.
God bless.
Hello David. I was raised Catholic and my mother remains so. My kids are exposed to religion, both here and at their father’s home–he is Baptist.
My kids have read a lot of the King James bible. We have several bibles here, books on mythology, books on the history of religion, atheism, science and religion…you name it.
“Putting your faith in God” is, in my opinion, a way of abdicating your rationale. It is leaving important decisions to time, luck and other people.
You can see you and I look at theworld differently. I’d like to post your comment on the front of this blog since there are other readers (both Christian and not) who can comment better than me. If you don’t want it there, let me know, and I’ll remove it.
Thank you for taking the time to write.
You’re welcome to put my comment wherever you like.
I think you misunderstand what faith is, and I wonder about your being raised a Catholic (what era? the faith was taught differently than it is now…) Do you believe that the Catholic Church was and is a hindrance to science and technology? To learning and human rights?
Do you believe in a First Cause?
Faith is not a blind leap.
Real faith is never opposed to reason. Reason prepares us for faith and helps us to see the reasonableness of faith. Faith is not a blind leap, but is based on knowledge of and trust in God’s authority. Faith does not opposed understanding, but rather enlightens it. Faith yields and reveals truth, exposing reason to ultimate truth and stirring reason beyond its isolation to ogtain truth, beauty and goodness.
Was up until close to midnight with my ten year old son who has run out of patience with the God crowd. He has always felt comfortable being himself (and rather a nerd, at that, I must say–tucks the shirts in and pulls his shorts halfway up his ribcage.) I fear adolesence could bring him a world of hurt (doesn’t every mother?). He is commited to his atheism (well, he is a bit attached to the Norse gods, but I told him Hitler and Wagner kind of messed that one up). He really lost it at that point and wanted to know why Nazism reflects poorly on Norse Gods seeing as how Hitler was Christian. I told him it was as illogical as most things human, but do a google search for your random Norse god and sooner or later you wind up on a white sepratist site. We have raised all our children on the mythologies of many cultures, though, I have to admit, I have been slow to teach them the Christian Mythology. If only the D’Aulieres had done a book on The Christian Mythology. I suppose I have to stop being a lazy Mommy and start putting it together myself. Knowledge is power. But I’m thinking my kid needs a support group of other kids who don’t believe in God. He’s feeling so lonely (we’re in the Bible Belt, alas–in fact the very state of idiot Governor Good Hair who suggested sucession last week. We must look like such yahoos down here.) At any rate, glad to find your site. Any suggestions on how to carve a place for kids of atheists to feel a sense of community?
I’m in TX, too. I don’t know of any support groups for kids who are on the fringe. My son takes a lot of grief at school because of his views. He no longer talks about it. There are a few extremists who believe in the creationist theories. They disrupt science class. He used to argue with them about it, but he learned that you cannot argue with people who are not thinking rationally.
I can understand the not talking about it. We’ve always advised our children to keep their views private and try to understand different people have different ways to find answers in life–that we can’t judge. I guess I worry about the depression that could come from the sense of isolation. David above says “I think you misunderstand faith”. I would agree that there is so much beyond comprehension (not just abstract concepts like faith but also surrounding realities like sounds and colors beyond our human range of perception. We are so very small, such a sliver of the universe. I find it hard to comprehend how humans came to the decision that they and they alone were made in the image of a conscience being who created all of existence. As I said, much beyond our comprehension), but there are also misunderstandings that come from closed minds, and how does one open the minds of others when one doesn’t even feel comfortable speaking out loud? I don’t even want to “convert” anyone, so much as just be heard out. I know there are open minded Christians, and closed minded Christians, open minded and closed minded people of all faiths, good and bad people of all faiths. But if we know it is wrong to assume all Muslims are bad (I hope we all agree that’s a whopping falsehood), then why is it we assume atheists are immoral, or hostile, or, I’m not sure what all (something bad enough that my sister-in-law thinks that my husband and I and our three, [unbaptised] children are going to toil forever on the lake of fire in the pit of eternal darkness–no matter how many abandoned children I have comforted, no matter how many cold I have clothed, or hungry I have fed). Are we truly a country with liberty and justice for all if there are children in schools everywhere, good children, kind and loyal friends, kids with compassion who remain silent because they have been worn down by persecution for their beliefs? I am happy to discuss my atheism, in fact, I really enjoy a good theological debate, but I also fear people will make assumptions about my values or moral compass or mental state, and so, find myself, like so many atheists, simply leaving it out of conversations and deleting it from my identity. I can live with some degree of injustice, but shouldn’t I do something to create a more just world for my children?
Hi Beth, Thanks for sharing. You are preaching to the choir. I think it’s ashame–really ashame–that you have a sister-in-law who is so self-righteous that she doesn’t see goodness.
I agree that children need other kids of the same belief systems. All sorts of faiths have established youth groups for this reason. If you can find other agnostics/atheists in your town, maybe they have kids. There’s a “Coalition of Reason” in the DFW area.
Also, I encourage you to visit Lottie at http://lottierambleson.wordpress.com/. She’s a great debater and has some salient insights into raising kids without religion.
It’s too bad that people can approach us on the street and talk religion, but we’re seen as freaks for not beleiving. You have an audience here, though, whenever you’d like to talk!
Hi! Me, Linda–Christian, blogger, daughter, wife for 33 years, mom of 3 girls, retired Navy Chief, traveler, gardener, painter, reader, writer, and soon to be Grandma (times 2!) Anyhow, we chatted back and forth a bit last year and I’m SOOO glad you’re back to blogging! Missed you!
I think of you sp often, will visit more, and will always pray (because that’s just what I do
Take care, Linda
Well hello, Linda! It’s GREAT to hear from you! I hope you are well! Congratulations on the grand-babies (twins!!).
Thanks!! It’s great to be back in touch!!
Twins would be cool, but actually two of our daughters are expecting at the same time–Hope is due in July, and Joy is due in November! Yeah..we’re excited!!
How exciting! They will still be playmates–as cousins!
I just want to thank you ladies for setting a fine example of what mothers everywhere should be. The world would not be in the sad state it’s in if there were more open-minded, loving people out there. No doubt you are creating productive, thinking, questioning members of society. People like that are hard to come by…
Thanks for your kind words Kandace.
Hi – I’m a Mom of 2 in NJ. I just found your blog and wanted to thank you for reaching out to other parents struggling to raise kids free from mainstream religious indoctrination. I help to run a Sunday School at the Ethical Culture Society of Bergen County – a secular Humanist organization. I’ve found all kinds of support in belonging to such an organization. We recently had a parenting meeting which was dominated by discussions of how our kids can deal with people with strong religious beliefs that they come across everyday at school and at play. It’s always distressing when one of my children’s playmates informs them with absolute certainty that they will “go to hell” because they don’t believe – but it’s even more distressing when I don’t have easy answers to help my kids deal with this kind of situation. Any time I find an excellent source of ideas from like minded parents (this blog for example) I feel compelled to send my sincere and heartfelt thanks for the service you are providing – keep up the very good work
Hi Anne,
Thank you for the nice note!!Any time you’d like to author a post, just let me know. I’d love to hear any suggestions or stories you have.
I think it’s wonderful that you have a supportive community. I don’t come out of the closet much around here!
Yes, I realise how lucky I am here in the North East that I have options to belong to a community of like-minded people. I was also raised in a Catholic family – and began seriously questioning the faith I was being raised in when I was 14. Once I moved away from home, I was free to do what I wanted in terms of religion and was happy to be religion free for quite a while. Having kids made me really think about the support I would need from the kind of community that religious groups offer. An affirmation of values, a sense of belonging etc. How fortunate for me that we lived in a town with an accepting Humanist community. We are still a minority and still very misunderstood, but at least we have each other. I would be happy to share some experiences and suggestions with others on your blog and feel flattered to be asked by you.
One thing we do at the Sunday School is teach world religions to the junior class (ages 9-11). We don’t have time to teach every religion, so we cover the main ones, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Budhism and Confucianism. We also cover a bit of history by introducing early religious belief – Greek and Roman, Egyptian etc. and place Humanism in the mix as a belief system. Our aim is to teach tolerance and respect for other’s beliefs and to give our kids enough information to make up their own minds about religion. I read one of your posts that says you are doing the same at home. It is sometimes difficult to make the lessons fun, but we are working hard at getting the kids involved through interaction and games while they learn.
I’ll try to check your blog regularly and comment on some of your posts. I’m extremely glad I found your site.
Wow. I love what you guys are doing, Anne. If anyone else is interested, check out the Ethical Culture Society of Bergen County’s website: http://www.ethicalfocus.org/.
p.s. If you guys haven’t read Ishmael, it’s worth including in your book list….My 15-yo enjoyed it.
I’ll look into Ishmael – I’d be interested in it even if my 12 year old is not ready for it yet!! Thanks for the tip.
Hi, I just wanted to say I love your website. I was looking through the comments and I think I saw that you are in TX? I’m in TX and have a hard time finding any groups (other than online) for support. I was wondering if you might consider emailing me letting me know where in TX you are (if you are in TX). I’m just north of the DFW metroplex, so I’m wondering if we’re anywhere close to each other. My kids are about to start a new school in a new city, and I am on a quest to find others so they know they aren’t alone out there. Keep up the blogging, it helps us all feel sane in an insane world!
Hello, I just came across your blog. I am lucky that I live in an area where you usually are not asked where you attend church. I was raised Methodist and my husband Southern Methodist, believe me there is a difference. He is Atheist and I am Agnostic and we are raising our two daughters to be freethinkers. We have decided to do teaching of religions within our own home with the understanding that if they question more than what we can answer we will attend a local UU Congregation for guidance. We teach them to have respect for others religious choices and that not any one person has the right answer.
@Tina. Thanks for your comment. I’m glad you stopped by. It’s always nice to meet other parents with similar beliefs!
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A user on our site Splore.com wanted to use our site as a gathering place for parents interested in secular teaching for their children. I have listed the website for the group that she started, FYI.
http://www.splore.com/splores/241#1586
Thanks, Larry. I’ll check it out.
Hi I just found your blog on UndeniablyMaybe. Though I don’t have time at the moment(twin boys running around at the moment) I look forward to coming back and having a look around.
Howdy! I know children needs lots of attention! Come back any time! Leave a link to your blog!
Hey, excellent site here. I was wondering if, since this is particularly your area of interest, you could answer a question for me. Do you know how many children grow up in religion and retain it into their adulthood? I am looking through some Pew Forum statistics right now and can’t seem to find about what percentage of children brought up in religion stay with it through their adulthood. I’m one of those lucky ones that went to an ACE Christian school, seminary, and even became a pastor, missionary, and evangelist before deciding to leave an entire lifetime of drilled-in faith. I’m writing an article for Secular News Daily about this phenomenon and would really appreciate any help you have to offer. Thanks!
I don’t know, Gordon, but I will keep an eye out. Also, if any other readers come across your comment, maybe they will know. Sounds like you’ve had an interesting journey!
I am so glad that I found your blog! I am a new mom, and although I have a few years before the “real” questions start coming I am starting early so that I will be completely prepared to answer any questions my son might have. My husband and I live in a very conservative TX town, and we really have no other resources to go to other than online support. I look forward to reading more from you!
I’m glad that you found me, too. We could all use the support! I also live in a conservative TX town. Glad to hear that there is another mom out there with similar views. You are just starting your journey with your son–that’s so exciting! It goes by so fast!
Always nice to run into a fellow freethinking blogger parent! Looking forward to reading through your stuff…
Mine is at http://wickedskepmother.wordpress.com/.
Hi! I just wanted to say I LOVE recieving email updates that alert me of a new blog post by you! You write very eloquently about subjects that peak my interests. Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words!