The prisoner abuse photos should be released. Then Bush and Cheney can be tried for war crimes.
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Fundamentally I agree with you.
However, I have a small problem with the idea of prosecuting our former president. I don’t want this stuff to ever happen again, and I believe strongly in the justice system (minus prisons for the most part.)
I am not sure if I can articulate my complaint well, but I will try. I will use the child services as my back drop. It is essential that child services can’t be held accountable if they make a “good faith” mistake. The reason for this, is it is so important that they can and will step in if they have reason to believe that a child is in danger. They will sometimes get it wrong, but if the puzzle fits in that direction it is important that they error on the side of keeping the child safe. Thus this is how the system is set up.
I would say I HATE what has been done in this situation. However, a president (I would like the vice president hang) has to make choices that are just as important. I would thus want to allow the leeway to make mistakes.
I am not sure if I linked the two well enough to make the point, but I hope so…
Terra, I do see your point about a good faith effort on beahlf of our leaders. And, mostly, I agree.
I see Bush II as having made a calculated and greedy choice on our behalf. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but it does seem that Bush took liberties with the information he had. I think child protective services would have been more cautious. Think of all the children we’ve harmed in Iraq. So very sad.
I am not sure what liberties were taken. What I am sure of is that “good faith” is an idea that requires an understanding of intent. With what has been released I think it is fair to say that the vice president has shown that he wanted his ideas through enough that he ignored (and destroyed in some cases) conflicting views. This does show his intent.
Now if Bush had the same intents or not I cannot really know. After all it is my understanding that all sorts of people filter the information that goes to the president. (Would take to long otherwise.)
Because of the office of a president, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, as the presidency is more important than the man that holds the office.
Here is a case of “the ends justifying the means”.
Or is it?
The risk to serviceman has already been pointed out; when pictures of torture are released that have been shown to incite certain people and could lead to further risks against our people on the ground. History has shown us this.
Is it worth it? If one US army solider was tortured in direct response to the photos, is it still worth it? How about two? How about ten?
How much are you willing to risk for the opportunity to MAYBE have a chance to prosecute Bush?
No, I believe we have to set an example. We have been wrong. We should rectify our mistakes. We should show that we will not tolerate leaders who abuse their power, who torture others.
Our people on the ground are already at risk. I, personally, do not feel releasing these photos would put them at any additional risk….I think Bush and Cheney should have to provide answers….It was a one-shot deal. This continued throughout their administration.
Dave,
I think the argument taken in that way is a little simplistic (no insult intended, I just see two sides here.)
Either action can have more risks to the soldiers on the ground. One being that we released the photos and thus for some of the people will take offense to that. The other being that they know the photos exist in the first place, and not releasing them will have essentially the same effect.
I can’t (and won’t pretend) know which one has a worse effect as a whole, for the ground troops. However, I think it is fair to say that American values are more at risk with the first option (of keeping them secret), than they are with the second option. History has shown us repeatedly, that winning a war at home is an important (if not the most important) aspect of winning a war. The reasons for this is the social implications. (Looking to see if I have an article to show this side..)
Here is part of a review I wrote in 2008 about this subject:
Article Review
The article titled To Win the “War on Terror,” We Must First Win the “War of Ideas”: Here’s How, by Hady Amr and P.W. Singer delves deeply into the ideas of civil rights, but adds the idea that we need to show the world we have a good standing on these issues in order deal with American’s problems with the world.
The paper begins by telling us how the world in general, views America negatively not because of our principles and values but rather because of our policies, the essential link is with the idea of how the United States deals with the issues of rights, respect, and the liberties at home. This idea is followed with the comparison, made by political leaders that compare the cold war with the current war. From that comparison it is noted that they are similar, but from the idea of how the United States won the cold war was by changing their own priorities. By confronting racism in America they showed the world that they weren’t just talk, they were also action.
As a matter of the highest national security importance, the next president should undertake the major, integrative initiative in public diplomacy and strategic communications… (Amr, Singe, 2008:215) As this suggests the next part of the article articulates exactly what America has to do in order to address the issues of communication. The remedies at home include making sure the president has specific leadership in civil liberties and reducing bigotry, and teaching more about the issue as well as addressing the issues in the United States.
Good review. You stated better what I meant to say here:
“…that American values are more at risk with the first option (of keeping them secret), than they are with the second option. ”
We might be at risk either way, but, as you mentioned in your review, we NEED a good standing and credibility to deal with international issues.
LOL, I would also apologize as I had to write the review by hand, and thus this is a rough draft that I put on the computer…
I personally am a fan of what Benjamen Franklin said, “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” I understand your point about standing up for our principles and displaying integrity, my questioning is aimed at two key points….
1) What is gained by displaying pictures that have already been acknowledged to exist and…
2) Are you prepared to fully accept and embrace the potential consequences in terms of human life?
We can not afford the luxury of absolving ourselves of the consequences of our actions, or ignoring the seeming tiny flap of butterfly wings that these pictures could prove to be.
As I said before, I’m a bit split on this issue….however, what really bothers me is the very real dilemma of releasing these graphic images presents be glossed over because the whole thing becomes a justification of means (ammunition to prosecute Bush).
I’m simply presenting words of caution in the face of zeal for prosecution.
Before I address your thoughts. I would like to note I have no want in regards to prosecution of the president.
I know there are different thoughts on that issue, but that is where I stand.
1) What is gained by displaying pictures that have already been acknowledged to exist and…
To know that we as American’s can look at what we have done, admit fault and apologize to all those effected, including ourselves. Also to show that we aren’t just spouting at the mouth when talking about our values, but to have policies that back up those values. It would be different if these actions weren’t already against the law, as then a new precedent could be made. However, we have prosecuted and even given the death penalty to people that have done this to us. Therefore, full recognition needs to made.
In addition we need have full transparency if for no other reason, by not doing so shows our new president to be a liar, as that is what he promised. Our standing with ourselves and the world is in jeopardy if we are willing to allow our new president to lie as we did with our last one… This is the promised new beginning…
2) Are you prepared to fully accept and embrace the potential consequences in terms of human life?
I don’t think the consequences are different either way, therefore I don’t find this question relevant.
If we show the abuse photos, and it is known that the Bush administration allowed the torture and allowed it to continue, it seems almost impossible to avoid prosecution for war crimes. If we are to say that our country is acting transparently and in good faith, then it follows that we should try our former president. I don’t think he should hang or sit in jail, but we will need to make some sort of reparations. It’s part of the healing process.